Title: 10-6-25
Keywords: TCPDF

UNIVERSITY PARK RECREATION DISTRICT - SPECIAL MEETING

UNIVERSITY PARK RECREATION DISTRICT - SPECIAL MEETING

October 6, 2025

1904 Manatee Ave. W Suite 300
Bradenton, FL 34205

941-344-6099
admin@libertycourtreportingfl.com

PUBLIC NOTICE
UNIVERSITY PARK RECREATION DISTRICT S P E C I A L	M E E T I N G
ATTORNEY/CLIENT SESSION MEETING October 6, 2025, AT 2:00 PM

LOCATION: 8301 The Park Boulevard, University Park, FL 34201

District Attorneys: Mark Barnebey, Esq.
Fred Moore, Esq. District Manager:	Vivian Carvalho
Board of Supervisors of the University Park Recreation District:	Sally Dickson, Steve Heitzner, Scott Huebner, David Murphy, and Russell Piersons

Proceedings were taken before: Olivia Cristantiello, CSR
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P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
MR. BARNEBEY: All right. You get to start the meeting, then you turn it over to me.
MS. DICKSON: Oh, I do?
Welcome to a meeting of the University Park RD Board of Supervisors, and we are opening the meeting with a roll call.
MS. CARVALHO: | Steve Heitzner?
MR. HEITZNER: | Here.
MS. CARVALHO: | Scott Huebner?
MR. HUEBNER: Here.
MS. CARVALHO: Sally Dickson? MS. DICKSON: Here.
MS. CARVALHO: David Murphy? MR. MURPHY: Here.
MS. CARVALHO: Rusty Piersons? MR. PIERSONS: Here.
MS. CARVALHO: We have a quorum.
MS. DICKSON: Given nobody is in the audience, I don't think you're going to have any questions or comments over there in the corner. So given that, we're going to move on to the heart of the matter. And what do we do from here?
MR. BARNEBEY: Well, open the attorney-client session. I'm going to read something, and so this

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is the opening. This is the attorney-client meeting to be held pursuant to Florida Sunshine Law Section 286.0118 Florida Statutes on this date May -- May --
Monday, October 6th, 2025 beginning at 2 o'clock
p.m and will last approximately 60 minutes at the request of our firm as district attorney.
This meeting is being held in the business offices located at 831 Park Boulevard, University Park, Florida 34201. This meeting has commenced in an open session, and we'll move into attorney-client session, limited attendance to district attorneys Mark Barnebey and Fred Moore, district manager Vivian Carvalho. University Park Recreation District: Sally Dickson, Steve Heitzner, Scott Huebner, David Murphy, and Russell Piersons.
And the court reporter will transcribe the full proceedings to be made part of the public record for -- at the conclusion of litigation for the purposes of discussing settlement negotiations or
strategy sessions related to litigation expenditures in the following court case Dean Matt versus University Park Recreation District, SC 2024-0990, Lower Tribunal Case 2024-CA-000252.
At the conclusion of this private portion of
the meeting will then be reopened to the public and

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1 | that will allow us to take any action that may be
2 | necessary or we'll just close the meeting. |
3 | With that, we need to open the session, and
4 | then I have a couple of comments to say. | |
5 | MS. DICKSON: | Okay. | So we're in the closed
6 | session now? | | | | |
7 | MR. BARNEBEY: | Okay. | | |
8 | MS. DICKSON: | And I -- to my knowledge, the
9 | last time we were together, we talked about |
10	potentially providing input so that we could
11 | contemplate a communication with Dean Matt in the
12 | matter of trying to reach a settlement. | And that
13 | was based on information we were provided that he
14 | had provided in terms of what he is looking for
15	based on meetings with you and Rusty, I believe.
16 | MR. MOORE: | Me being Fred. | |
17 | MS. DICKSON: | I was trying to remember. |
18 | MR. MOORE: | For the court reporter. | |
19 | MS. DICKSON: | Anyways, Fred and Rusty. | And so,
20	at this point, since we don't speak to each other,
21 | we don't have any idea whether you got feedback or where
22 | we stand in terms -- | | | |
23 | MR. BARNEBEY: | Well, let me start before we get
24 | to his feedback. | | | | |
25 | MS. DICKSON: | Okay. | | |
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MR. BARNEBEY: Almost there. I'm going to remind you, these are -- this is being transcribed and so comments that you make today will be public at some point, so just remember that. And secondly, please talk one at a time because the court reporter has a challenge if you don't do that.
And so with that, I will now turn it over to Fred.
MR. MOORE: Thank you. And I want to thank everybody for reaching out to me, at least discussing these points a little bit further. It did provide some guidance to flesh out those four bullet points a little bit more.
Before we get into -- and I do have a handout to get into those bullet points and figured to discuss the status of the case, which is the same as we started the last one. We haven't heard anything. I know that there's been various discussions Mark and I have had about what can we do next?
One of the things we could do, I don't know could have an effect or no effect, and that is to have someone enter an appearance on behalf of the district. It could be something as easy as another attorney in our firm entering appearance to, I'm
going to loosely say, hiring appellate counsel to

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also enter an appearance.
MR. HEITZNER: So explain that a little, please.
MR. MOORE: Well, if we do it, it's simple.
It's just fill out a piece of paper, notice of appearance, and it's really just one more attorney from our firm, who is involved. I don't know if this will do anything.
MR. HEITZNER: Where does that go?
MR. MOORE: It gets filed with the court. So there's some document that the clerk files, and theoretically, there is some ping within the Supreme Court halls of something has happened in this file that may or may not need to be done. And perhaps, to the extent it's just sitting there with someone not thinking about it, maybe that -- that gives them that thought.
MR. HEITZNER: And is that a simple process to execute?
MR. MOORE: Yes. Whether it's someone at our firm or someone out of our firm, it's preparedness, paper it, and filing it.
MR. HEITZNER: And what is the downside of that?
MR. MOORE: Well, no downside, really, that I

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see. With respect to filing on our firm, the question is, does that ping loud enough? It's just some other attorney within our firm. With respect to someone out of house, what you really would want to have is someone who appears at the Supreme Court all of time, or at the very least, a board certified appellate attorney. So it appears to however it's pinged, hey, the district here is looking to do something, perhaps it rattles and moves it forward.
MR. HEITZNER: And how expensive of a proposition is that, to go outside to a potential appellate attorney?
MR. MOORE: I spoke with someone I work with who is not a Tallahassee Supreme Court, but is a board certified appellate attorney and he would enter an appearance at $500, and then we could discuss to the extent there is any oral argument. Because that's really the last piece that we had here. Then we would discuss what the arrangement would be going forward. It would likely be an hourly rate, depending how involved in oral argument we want that person.
MR. HEITZNER: That's if there's an oral argument. This process doesn't trigger an oral
argument.

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MR. MOORE: Correct. As I sit here, I have no crystal ball, but my lean is it's sat for long enough to where I think it's probably unlikely that there will be oral argument. But it's just --you're trying to figure out which track it's on and my thought would be if it's on the simple justice track, no oral argument, it makes more likely why it's sort of sitting there.
MR. MURPHY: This is basically, this move is just basically raise your hand and let them know we're still standing here in line?
MR. MOORE: Correct.
MR. MURPHY: That we're still here. Yeah.
MR. MOORE: We're raising our hand without whining, if you will.
MR. MURPHY: Correct, because you don't want to alienate.
MS. DICKSON: So my question is: What other ways can we ping them without having to spend money? In other words, is a letter from someone, sent certified mail, which is the court clerk told me that I could do, and then there was no retribution for doing that, that it was, you know, completely okay to just say, hey, you know, here are the facts,
I'm not advocating for one way or another, but I'm

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just wanting to remind, you know, that we are here and it's been over a year and we -- I'm just hoping that blah, blah, blah, whatever the letter might say from a concerned citizen or a member of the board, whatever we wanted it to be.
MR. MOORE: I would say, again, no crystal ball here, that would be what I put on the level of someone at my firm just filing that appearance.
It's a ping, but is it a loud enough ping? I don't know. Even the board certified or Supreme Court specialist, I don't know how much louder the ping is. There's just a little bit more weight behind it.
MR. PIERSONS: Spending the $500 and using an outside firm, is there -- there has to be some form of track record overall. Like, does that generally have an impact or does it -- there's no -- no impact? I mean, what -- there has to be a favor? I mean, yeah, it has impact or it didn't have impact.
MR. MOORE: We're really just -- we don't know why the file is sitting there, so we're just trying to --
MR. HEITZNER: Well, I think his question is in past situations like this, where we have gone out
and done this, is it, you know, 50 percent of the

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time (crosstalk) --
MR. PIERSONS: (Crosstalk) yeah, other organizations --
MR. HEITZNER: Other organizations. Or is it, it's one out of a million? What's the likelihood that this would do what we want it do? Is really small? Is it --
MR. PIERSONS: Where we get their attention.
MR. MOORE: Well, what I'll say is I handle some appeals, but I don't handle appeals as a specialty, meaning, that's all I do. So my sample size is smaller. I don't know that I have been involved in something where we're just sitting here for this long, wondering what's next. At the trial court level, I will say, I have waited for a decision for a long time. And typically, when we wait a long time, we do the ping, it's asking for case management conference. It usually has gotten it some movement, but that ping is also louder in that I'm appearing in front of them, saying, we're looking to take the next step, but we're waiting on your decision, so --
MR. MURPHY: You know, I think we need to be proactive. We just keep waiting. $500. I -- I
have no problem spending that. I mean, good lord,

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we're waiting here a year later. Look at what we're spending on interest on -- look at the inflation in the construction projects due to this delay. And to me, I totally support it. We just can't keep waiting every week, have we heard anything?
As I said at the last meeting, it's like waiting for Godot. So I -- I, for one, definitely support the outside attorney.
MS. DICKSON: I have a question because you mentioned before the $500 fee to ping. Are we under any obligation after that? You talked about an hourly rate and going forward if there was an oral argument. Are we somehow obligating ourselves to this attorney to give them more business if something evolves?
MR. MOORE: That attorney is obligating themselves to us.
MS. DICKSON: Okay.
MR. MOORE: So they are of record and have responsibilities as a result. But if there was oral argument set, we could have the discussion. And if we didn't see eye to eye, the attorney will be able to withdraw without any issue.
MS. DICKSON: Okay.
MR. HEITZNER: We would be able to withdraw the

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attorney without any issue?
MR. MOORE: We would terminate the attorney or mutually part ways. The attorney would withdraw.
MR. HEITZNER: Okay.
MR. MURPHY: And the assumption or the hope is that this ping will be loud enough that what we just discussed won't transpire.
MR. MOORE: Regardless of the -- of the sound of the ping, the hope is that it's -- that they pick it up and whether we have to do oral argument or whether it's just, it's sitting here, let me just make this decision.
MR. PIERSONS: They take action.
MR. MOORE: Taking action. And hopefully it is just we're just going to pick it up and take action without requiring oral argument. We let it sit this long. And there -- it's not complicated issues.
This is something they could write a decision on without -- without my needing to elaborate, or either Mr. Dean. And I think there's more potential for blowback by having it because we have Mr. Dean taking shots against the trial judge.
MR. MURPHY: So to the extent we need to proceed in an oral argument, there would be
attorney's fees incurred regardless of whether we

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retain this outside individual or not?
MR. MOORE: Correct.
MR. MURPHY: So therefore, it's not a financial decision because, like I just said, if there's oral arguments, we're paying some lawyer. So if this lawyer, this outside attorney has a better chance of having somebody realize we're still sitting in the waiting room a year later, then again, I think that's a very smart $500.
MS. DICKSON: Sorry, go ahead.
MR. PIERSONS: Well, so if we went ahead with this other person and he made that move, and then we were asked to do an oral argument, do we have to use him? Could we use you? Or we're required to stay with him?
MR. MOORE: We could use me, we could use me and him. We could use him. It doesn't matter.
MR. MURPHY: Going to need somebody and someone's going to get paid.
MR. PIERSONS: So I suggest the other -- and I'll let Scott go first. But we see what that --before we make a decision on the other one, let's just take a look at it. I'm not trying to end the conversation.
MR. MOORE: It was easier a starting point of

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"we haven't gone anywhere" to start off with. Here are some handouts.
MS. DICKSON: I have two more questions. One, you talked about within the district court you can ask for a case management meeting. There's nothing like that in this particular process?
MR. MOORE: There is nothing in the rules of appellate procedure that I'm aware of that is a case management, like in the rules of civil procedure.
So whether or not you can file a motion and they have an oral argument -- or not oral argument, but a status conference, it's not typical. Because typically, you're just going to have one hearing and that's oral argument or there's zero (crosstalk) --
MS. DICKSON: Right. Right. Okay. And then, the other question was sort of like what Rusty was asking. So if we -- I'm just being -- I don't mean to be insulting. But if we went with this other attorney whose got this experience and has done this before, are we paying you at the same time? Are you going to coordinate with that attorney?
MR. BARNEBEY: The answer to that is probably
yes.
MS. DICKSON: Just need to know. I mean, how deep are we starting to get.

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MR. MOORE: What we wouldn't be looking to do is doing the exact same thing.
MS. DICKSON: Of course not. I got it. okay.
MS. CARVALHO: Could I a question? Similar to what was stated by Rusty and Sally just now. If the board here collectively proceed with an attorney, is there pros and cons with having someone in your firm, right, be part of this additional appearance? Because they will have access to the records and all the case associated with it, versus having someone from the outside that would have to essentially be brought up to speed in the case and have additional costs.
MR. MOORE: I think that for the perspective of in my firm or out of my firm, I think the louder ping is out of the firm. Because in the firm, it's just internally moving. As far as cost effectiveness, the record is electronic. It's a matter of me flipping a switch, and the briefs and the record in this case is a limited record because there's no court reporter or anything with that, or there was not. I don't see there's any increase.
Let's just say it was someone in my firm that was going to come in and assist with oral argument
and go to Tallahassee with me to make oral argument,

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they're also going to review, just like the other attorney.
MS. CARVALHO: Okay.
MR. MOORE: I'd like to say, let's just go with someone in the firm is really just trying to have something hit the record. I feel like having a specialist, it makes the appearance to the clerk to whomever to be like, hey, it looks like they're getting ready to do something while we're all scratching our head, kind of going, what's the best way to do something without actually doing something.
MR. PIERSONS: So can we assume if we decided to use the person in your firm, it's competitive pricing-wise? I mean, all of a sudden are we going to pay $5,000 to have your guy do it versus $500?
Is that possible?
MR. BARNEBEY: Well, we start off with saying we give you all a discounted rate.
MR. PIERSONS: All right. So it should be $300 instead of $500.
MR. BARNEBEY: (Simultaneous crosstalk) I'll let him answer that question.
MR. PIERSONS: I'm just kidding. I'm not
complaining about the $500.

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MR. MOORE: No. Really, 500, in talking to other attorneys, a lot of attorneys before taking it on will want to go ahead, read the briefs, do --because, again, they are signing up and obligating themselves to the current situation. And this is somebody that I have a relationship with who is willing to say, look, for the $500, I will worry about getting up to speed on the back end as opposed to saying I need $10,000 so I can get up to speed.
(Simultaneous crosstalk)
MR. PIERSONS: Hundred bucks is reasonable, more than reasonable.
MR. MOORE: So we discussed the four points the last time. There was this committee ombudsman discussion as one, the adoption of the business plan as two, the apology acknowledgement is three, and the obviously dismissal as four.
So trying to -- to hone in on what an ombudsman really means and how it could impact an elected board like this. We came up with one of two options, and I did it this way because really I think the push here by Mr. Matt is he wants to be this person or this committee. And so wanting to flesh out, based on discussions I had, what would be
the better option that we could get by in if we're,

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in fact, going to come to a consensus to settle this.
Look at everything and then we can talk about each of these individually.
MR. MURPHY: Has he reviewed this document? MR. MOORE: He has not.
MR. MURPHY: He has not? MR. MOORE: Correct.
MR. MURPHY: So not only has he not agreed to it, he has not reviewed it?
MR. MOORE: Correct.
MR. PIERSONS: If we're not in agreement with it, no sense giving it to him.
MR. MURPHY: (crosstalk) go into negotiations, call me crazy, but sometimes I look at somebody's offer, whether it be a business deal or a legal situation, before I comment on whether it's acceptable. Otherwise, I'm just having an interesting conversation be with myself.
MR. BARNEBEY: We tried to -- based on what Dean Matt had said in your meeting, and based on some of the input we got from the board, we tried to come up with something that we thought might work.
I want to make three comments on that, one is,
you can pick all of this, none of this, and you can

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make changes to it. Obviously, we have to have --alternately you have to have at least consensus that this something we're interested in doing. What we will -- if we'll get a consensus on making a proposal to him, we'll take that proposal to him.
No need to vote on it until he comes back, because obviously he hasn't seen it yet, right? We're just discussing it.
So but, this will at least give an idea of what potentially settle for. And with that, I'll give you a few minutes to read that document.
MR. MOORE: Who wants to kick it off?
MR. HEITZNER: I'm good with the very last paragraph.
MR. BARNEBEY: Not surprised.
MR. MOORE: That last paragraph is the advantage of the settlement, which is we can't really prevent Mr. Matt from saying what he wants say tomorrow, but this is a clean slate to where he can't talk about yesterday.
MR. HEITZNER: I'm not saying that I agree with one, two, or three.
MR. MOORE: I understand that.
MR. HEITZNER: I agree with dismissing it. MR. MURPHY: Yeah. I wasn't even totally in

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love with number four because next week there will be something else that -- specially the supervisors that he tends to mention most frequently, namely Sally and myself. I think Steve will start climbing up the ladder soon. So yeah, we solve this one, and two weeks from now, he comes up with something else where two and two equals five.
MR. HEITZNER: I think the best predictor of future performance is past performance. This is going to nowhere.
MR. MURPHY: I think (crosstalk)
MR. PIERSONS: If we agreed of having some form of committee, if we agreed on it, could we not connect it on if his performance steps -- I don't know how to say this -- out of bounds, that he is removed from the committee.
MR. MOORE: Whether it's a committee or ombudsman, I think that the rules are set outside of this and the conduct would be, you know, expected based on what rule was put in place for creation of that position. And if you were considering it, I would suggest that if you went with just the ombudsman, it doesn't have to be. Mr. Matt may want it to be him, it doesn't have to be him. You can
push back and say, we really don't want to do any of

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this, but for the good of the community, for putting all of this behind us, dismissing this case and letting us move forward with the bond, we're willing to put somebody in, but it's going to John Smith that lives over on ABC Court. He seems to be
level-headed and fair. That's the only thing we're going to do.
And so to your guy's point about how he is going to act, that may be true. But what this allows us to do is move forward the day he signs it with the bond, move forward with the financing of the improvements, and know that the threats that he's made against UPRD, and the reps, and everybody are gone.
He can create potentially new claims by emailing Vivian saying, I need these records, and then that's a public record violation.
MR. MURPHY: Right, yep.
MR. MOORE: But regardless of whether we settle with him or not, he is going to likely do that. So I wouldn't consider that as a reason to or not settle.
MR. MURPHY: You know, I personally would have absolutely no interest of him being part of any
committee of the ombudsman, and certainly not him

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being the ombudsman. That's even beyond being on a committee. I also feel as I sit now, in terms of negotiating a settlement, the leverage on his side was much greater a year ago. We've already been tied up, we have been delayed, we've incurred interest charges. We have denied our residents the amenities that they said they wanted.
And so at this point, we've waited this long, I believe we're going to prevail. Once the bond is approved, there is no leverage. He can certainly come up with other issues. I guess two weeks ago, we got four requests on a Sunday morning. So I'm not assuming it will go away.
But where I sit, we've already incurred the year delay, the expense and inconvenience to all of our residents. This is not the time where I'm personally willing to agree to this.
MS. DICKSON: I'll ask a couple of questions on the ombudsman situation. So it says ombudsman/conflict committee. Where does that --was that part of his wording?
MR. MOORE: No, it was mine. When I was pulling out the ombudsman role and really what Mr. Matt was discussing, being able to say when
things are going on at meetings that he thinks or

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the ombudsman thinks is contradictory to policy conflicts. That's what I came up with.
MS. DICKSON: So that sort of explains where it says -- well, first of all, it says that the board establishes or appoints by vote -- no, committee shall be established by vote of the board of supervisors. I don't know that it says here how we select the members of the committee. So that will be obviously contentious.
But then it says serve as an impartial body. I think that's a word that can't be guaranteed. You can't guarantee impartiality from a committee that you put together. How do you know? And I think that would be -- I think this becomes a very argumentative thing with him.
When we talk about "the committee shall be tasked with submitting report to be filed with the meeting minutes of the board of supervisors on my concern, conflict, or practice identified by the committee concerning any meeting of the board supervisors," I don't even know what that means. It sounds like, and knowing the way that he's always positioned things, that this is all about, again, not liking what the board is saying, then the
committee is going to basically be at odds with the

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board or bring something up, and it reflects back to conflict. There's a potential here to create conflict that wouldn't be there if this person or committee weren't there deliberately wanting to create conflict.
So I have a huge problem with it, and I would not agree to any one ounce of this on the ombudsman thing.
MR. PIERSONS: The ombudsman is kind of a term we used, but he really used, I thought, the word governance, not -- the ombudsman was an add-on, just that's the way I heard it.
MR. MOORE: Well, he's saying governance because he wants to be able to critique the supervisors following of policy, procedure, bylaws, and that's one of the things was to be able to have a place on the --
MS. DICKSON: Yep.
MR. MOORE: -- so to speak, and that is one of the things I tried to make clear is, great, you can put together a report that we didn't comply with XYZ bylaw, and then it's just going to be a reminder that is put into the meeting minutes where now,
Ms. Dickson, you forgot to recognize this person per
Robert's order. Now you might say the next time,

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oh, you know, I didn't do this. And that is what I tried to make this position really be to where it is just, here is what we saw or observed could have been done better, but not giving a ten-minute slot there for public comment, longer than you would have an individual citizen.
MS. DICKSON: Got it. Well, you know, if it really was about governance, then I believe that we can and should talk about governance and about how we want to manage that, how we want that looked at, and who -- or is there a committee, how do we want to do that? In order to look at -- we talked about this a long time ago, about contracts, and do we have this, do we have that?
And yeah, maybe not formally, but we have it, but let's formalize it. I would not do that in context with Dean Matt, but that certainly is not off the table. That's frankly on the table, but it needs to be on the table with some meat on it so we can discuss exactly how because, I think in the past, and Steve, I think it was you who brought up, typically, we -- the governance is the board.
And so Dean has brought up this concept of a big brother and, you know, in a very negative way,
not in a helpful way. It's all deliberately a

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finger pointing, gotcha way, which I wouldn't tolerate and don't.
So I don't want us -- unless anybody disagrees, governance is not off the table, but I'm not going to discuss it in term of Dean Matt.
MR. MURPHY: I would agree. You know, it is about governance and, you know, you think back to the ethic violation claims he's made against general counsel, district manager, the chair. The claims he's made against some of the board members who perhaps doesn't like their opinions, none of them have held water. They have all been rejected.
So we have district manager, president meetings, we have general counsel. We have district counsel, we follow Sunshine, we follow the ethics rule, we file financial reports, and simple actions trigger requests and issues.
$38,000 to proceed with architects resulted in us handing over 12 months' work of checks for him to review. That is just a recent example.
So there's always room for improvement, but I think that this body does a very good job and I believe it's appropriately sensitive to the rules and guidelines and we act accordingly. But like I
said, there's always room for improvement. I

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personally would not support any committee that had Dean Matt as a member, nor do I believe we even need this committee or an ombudsman, because as Steve Heitzner pointed out, and we have been on a few boards, governance normally comes out of the board and is not some layered kind of board. And that is both public and private board experience on my behalf.
MR. HEITZNER: Agree.
MR. BARNEBEY: I do wonder whether the creation of the two committees that we have created, the strategic --
MS. DICKSON: Finance --
MR. MURPHY: Always forget what it's called. MR. BARNEBEY: Strategic planning committee.
Whether those two committees will not function, at least to some extent, to address if we're going --if we think the board is going in a different direction. I'm not sure it's everything that
Mr. Matt wanted, but it may address some of those concerns.
MS. DICKSON: Actually, I believe that governance is part of what strategic planning discusses. To what degree, we can talk about. But
I mean, I have looked at numerous strategic planning

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guidelines and things like that, and governance is part of that. Because when you're planning, you have to determine what is the governance plan going to be within this, all of those things are going to have to come together.
Also, with my experience with boards, there is typically, or in some cases has been an administrative person who looks at, okay, we didn't dot our I's and cross our T's on this, so we need to go back.
Doing the, oh, you know what, this wasn't resolution such and such, it was supposed to be resolution such and such. Doing that kind of thing, which is more of a making sure that everything is in line, or going back and looking and saying, okay, do we attach this report to something else?
So again, I think those things can be done and it's a task-oriented thing. It's not a -- let's start a conspiracy over this. It's about making sure the files are complete and that type of thing, so --
MR. PIERSONS: So I'm not speaking for everybody here, but, you know, I'm hearing not as much positive of this, which is fine. But if that
occurs, it seems to me then, we should put it aside

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and we should get a little bit more -- I don't know if the right word is aggressive, or moving forward with this gentleman to get some kind of feedback from -- just leaving it there I think is --
MR. HEITZNER: Yeah. This something I have been asking about for a long time and we have sat back and done nothing. Just sat here. That has frustrated me, and we -- I wouldn't can't to commit to anything if we don't take some sort of proactive step to see if we can't push this through because it is more than we have done.
MR. PIERSONS: Right.
MR. BARNEBEY: Well, getting -- I want to stay on topic. In regards to the settlement proposal or some form of settlement proposal, am I -- other than section four and I don't know how you want to handle this. Is there any -- any -- any section that you want to throw out at Mr. Matt?
MR. MOORE: I'll tell you what I heard. Number one and that iteration, maybe there are pieces of it that are fine, but you throw it out and really you're starting with two which is the strategic planning and a finance committee.
MR. PIERSONS: We're already doing that.
MR. MOORE: Well, right.

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MR. MURPHY: Which are in place.
MR. MOORE: So we have that in place. And then we utilize what we write here and can we blend any of, sort of the verbiage from one into the phraseology of two and --
MS. DICKSON: Oh, okay. So you make a good point. So we talk about -- well, first of all, adoption of business committees plan is a very different thing than what is down here because this is saying that the business planning group that presented a plan that we did not wholly accept and said that we would pass along to the strategic planning group to use, in part, to formulate their plans. So I don't see these as related and I don't see these as satisfying whatever he would want.
I don't know why he is in -- why he would even be even pushing the business planning.
MR. MOORE: He was pushing the two points from the plan that we talked about before, which was nine and ten.
MS. DICKSON: I don't remember what they were. MR. MOORE: I don't have it. It was about how they approach, I think, spending the money on these
improvements.
MS. DICKSON: About revisiting the whole thing.

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MR. MOORE: So we then peg that to be we know these committees were in place, they've adopted some of the items from those plans and it's really trying to take everything that was in flux what he said and condensing it down to meet his four bullet points.
MS. DICKSON: Got it. I understand. I don't think anything right here is going to be satisfactory for him.
MR. PIERSONS: I totally agree with that.
MS. DICKSON: It's just not. But if there's anything positive in any of this, speak up. Because if there's any element in here that any of you --Scott, you haven't said anything.
MR. PIERSONS: So are you saying to have it back to him or --
MS. DICKSON: Well, let's -- I mean, is there anything salvageable in here?
MR. BARNEBEY: We're going to take these up because whatever we do, after we're done with this, we'll walk back.
MS. DICKSON: No, I get it.
MR. BARNEBEY: So we would present whatever the board is comfortable presenting to him, whatever that might be. That is why we're here.
MR. HUEBNER: I have just a -- my name is Scott

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Huebner. First, you guys, you know that I was against the bond. But I'm also against undecided lawsuits. I don't like the fact that we're leaving this in the hands of the Supreme Court. I prefer to find some way to settle and then disagree amongst friends and neighbors and work out my differences here, and not have the Supreme Court tell us what we're going to do, and we don't know when they're going to tell us.
I would love to find some way to take something back to Dean that gives him the opportunity to say no or yes. So that's kind of where I'm coming from on the whole thing. I don't want to spend a whole bunch of money. I don't want to take more time. I would like to find a way to put that to bed.
And I understand that he has been extremely aggressive towards some of the members of this group here. And so I understand that. What I was looking at here in this, quite frankly, is there a way to call this a -- a legal group, because we have some very good lawyers, as opposed to a governance committee. I understand your point of view that we're responsible for governance, but we're not lawyers.
We involve a lawyer regularly. He is here to

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keep us on track. If we had a legal team that would help to review our contracts and do this free of charge, versus paying our lawyers, and maybe they even sat in on some meetings that weren't going to be complicated, so we, again, minimize our legal fees. As much as I want you to make as much money as possible, it might be beneficial down the road, thinking out loud.
And that's why I had talked about a governance committee, but I'm hearing you say that is maybe not the right term. So if we had a legal advisory group to help look at things to cover the gaps. I've been through a lot of lawsuits, but I don't pretend to be a lawyer.
So I'm trying to find a way here to do something. I think that Dean would say, I want to be on that committee. I think if we gave him a 30 day or --
MR. HEITZNER: He is not a lawyer.
MR. HUEBNER: I understand, so maybe he wouldn't qualify. But there may be a way to put something together here. I'm -- I can go either way on this because the longer it goes on, nothing gets done.
MS. DICKSON: I think you actually make a very

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interesting point. So regardless of whatever happens within this or whether he likes it or not. But the concept of a volunteer group of retired attorneys, who happen to live here or whatever, who may have done contract law, I don't even know what it would be, might be assembled as an advisory. Not a committee, as an advisory group who can look at things and say, hey, you know, we suggest this.
We still ultimately take it to our attorneys because they're licensed and whatever, so it was something we wanted to change, but they could give a perspective. It's not an unappealing or strange idea to get more people involved.
Let them -- if it made sense, unless it creates some kind of liability when we're relying on
non-licensed advice, which I think -- but I think I see where you're coming from and I can see in my mind if there were not problems with it because of the fact that it's illegal. There could be an opportunity. I don't think it would ever be appealing to Dean Matt.
MR. HEITZNER: But they have to be providing legal opinion, which may or may not be accurate, based on the fact that these are retired attorneys.
So it's legal opinion that would then have to be

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turned over to licensed -- as you said licensed attorneys to determine whether or not that opinion has merit.
MS. DICKSON: Yeah, that's a good point.
MR. PIERSONS: Which by the way, he is going to do for us anyhow.
MR. BARNEBEY: In theory.
MR. MURPHY: I think we -- I would honestly like to have this resolved as well, so we can get on with building things. But if you take a look at his history of complaints, in my opinion, they're not the sorts of issues that having a bunch of lawyers on a committee would resolve.
He claims that we overpaid for the club. He claims that people who are involved in that transaction either didn't know what they were doing or perhaps were less than stellar in terms of their ethics. He doesn't want the amenities, he doesn't want the bond, he doesn't want the debt.
He doesn't use any amenities here. Okay?
None. So why just spend the 38,000? Why are you repainting the varsity club? Send me copy of this, send me copies of that. Let me look at this, let me see what I could find. And most of the times, he doesn't find anything. Sometimes he tries to make

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something out of whatever it is. So whatever document you present, he wants more documents and more documents.
And to me, that's not something that a bunch of retired attorneys are going to solve. It's a philosophical headset and way of looking at things. And that's in my opinion, as he likes to say, is not going to go away or be corrected.
So as much as I hate waiting for the
Supreme Court, I go back to what I said before, a year ago, maybe, my willingness to negotiate would have been greater. Right now, let the court decide. Let's go forward with the amenities. Let's go forward with the bond that was approved by the residents and was the result of years and years of work and investigation by three different boards.
So that's my opinion.
MR. BARNEBEY: Let me talk a little bit about the legal part of it. By the way, I'm all for you spending less money on legal, frankly. From -- if you can. The -- the benefit of having, obviously, district counsel is you're protected. It's actually for your protection so that you can rely on. And even if I'm wrong, you are protected. You have some protection.

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I will note, I occasionally get questions from lawyers, retired lawyers in the -- in the community and so, you know, I look at those comments when they come in, I have no problem, you know, fine.
The -- but you -- you really can't rely on it.
A, they're retired for a reason. Usually they're off doing something more productive. And secondly, they're not going to want you to have to rely on them because they're retired and they're not licensed.
You know, I think it's -- I don't mind the idea of some more information. But I think, I don't really know if you need a committee doing that.
What is up to.
MS. DICKSON: Good points. Good points. I think maybe, so in this case, in that concept, it goes back to the more administrative function of somebody who is just keeping an eye out and says, hey --
MR. HEITZNER: I do think there is a void.
Administratively, there is a void. I think we're understaffed as a community in that regard between the HOA, the RD, et cetera, and John. I think there's a missing -- there's a missing component. And stuff falls through the cracks because of that,

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things don't get communicated when they should get communicated because of that, and et cetera, et cetera.
So I do think there is some merit in looking at something like that, that is there specifically to help facilitate communication and decision-making.
MS. DICKSON: Good point. MR. MURPHY: So --
MR. PIERSONS: So this might be a little tough, but so from my observation with the discussion with Dean, Mr. Matt, and hearing those folks, and really to be fair, Sally and David, and particularly Mark, he's thrown stuff, so I understand. So don't -- I'm not picking a side. But to me, it's almost like the only way we're going to get this -- and even then I'm not sure if we can -- to have some form of mediator for us to sit with him and say, can't we get this worked out or not? And we may not want to do that. I don't see us working this out, that is my opinion. And it's only my opinion.
MS. DICKSON: I just want to make the point that while we have been attacked and whatever, I don't respond, my positions on this are not based on the personal attacks on me, nor on you.
MR. MURPHY: No.

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MS. DICKSON: I take the emotion out of it, as far as I'm concerned.
MR. MURPHY: Me too.
MS. DICKSON: What's the reality, and frankly, discerning what kind of a personality he is with all of his diatribes, and conspiracy theories, and everything else, and realizing that regardless of what is written here, or if we mediated, he will not change.
MR. PIERSONS: I don't think we'd succeed. MS. DICKSON: (Crosstalk)
MR. PIERSONS: I agree. I think that's the only chance --
MR. MURPHY: Yeah, and I concur with what Sally said. To be very clear, this is not at all personal. It's policy. We have a responsibility to the community. We follow the rules. Our goal is to make this a better community. And as Sally pointed out, it's just endless. Endless. You know, just let's look at this, let's look at that. This was wrong, there's always implied malfeasants, if that's the proper term. There is also something implied that is not kosher, to use a term I'm more familiar with.
And it just -- that's just the approach. It is

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the modus operandi. And that's why I think we need to just hear it from the court, get the big victory, get building things that people want, and assume that every step of the way we'll be questioned about this, that, and the other thing. Just like we couldn't paint the varsity club or authorize $38,000 for architects. There's no issue too small that it cannot be unearthed, an innuendo derived from that small issue. I mean, it's been a year --
MR. PIERSONS: 10 more minutes. I'm sorry. I mean, why don't we focus on what we want to do? I mean, it sounds to me like -- and I think you and I favor trying to get something done with the courts. And I think the two of you -- I'm not speaking for any of you. It just sounds like we favor that. So why don't we move forward with getting that done?
Let's move on it. As David said earlier, $500 is nothing. It's not the $500.
MS. DICKSON: I think we wanted to make sure everybody had a chance to say their piece.
MR. PIERSONS: I agree.
MS. DICKSON: No, yeah. I got it. MR. PIERSONS: You get 8 minutes.
MR. BARNEBEY: That is just an estimate. We
can be here longer.

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MR. PIERSONS: I thought you said you have go.
MR. MURPHY: I have a 4 o'clock finance meeting.
MR. HEITZNER: Tell me -- I'm in total agreement with that. How is that $500 expense communicated? Because this is where we run into issues. When a decision is made, for example, and the last time we had a shade meeting, we made a decision to change the date of our meeting. That wasn't communicated and that resulted in a 40-line email. Okay?
So where -- how does this show up publicly? What is -- does it need to be communicated based upon this? And if so, how do we communicate that? If it doesn't need to be communicated, great. But I want to make sure that we don't step on ourselves on some little thing like this.
MS. DICKSON: So when we come out of the shade meeting, we go back into our regular meeting before we leave here. We can publicly state for the record whatever -- whatever decision -- no, no, action like a date of a meeting or something.
MR. BARNEBEY: It's what we did. MS. CARVALHO: Which we did that.
MR. HEITZNER: I'm just saying that was the

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email that came. Right?
MR. MURPHY: The most recent email, once again, it becomes a blur. But we canceled the meeting and every time we cancel a meeting, it's because of an agenda and we're trying to get the right people in a room for a vote. We're not saying it's a workshop. One time we got called out, I believe, someone was in the hospital, which is why we couldn't have a meeting.
MR. BARNEBEY: Getting back on track for a second. When we come out of this meeting, one thing I am going to do is ask for authority to hire outside counsel to assist us on the appeal. That is all I'm going it say subject to the discussion we had.
And that's all. I am going to get specific authority to hire outside counsel, if we believe that is appropriate as we move forward.
MS. DICKSON: Will that show up as a line item on an invoice? That's part of this shade meeting.
MR. BARNEBEY: But that part is going to be open. That should show up on the minutes.
MS. CARVALHO: It will show up in the minutes. I think the question and the distinction is, we're
going to get back into the open Sunshine to have

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that vote taken by the board once you frame the motion. The question is: Am I going to get a records request of the cost associated for hiring --(crosstalk) but if we do, that would be exempt because of the litigation, it's tied to litigation. I think that is important for the board to understand.
MR. HEITZNER: That's what I was asking. MR. BARNEBEY: That's correct.
MR. MURPHY: And does it need to be any budget?
Because we get asked that all of the time.
MR. BARNEBEY: You have budget for our -- for attorney's fees.
MR. MURPHY: That's the other thing we get asked all of the time. Where was it discussed, where is it in the budget? Send me the line item, send me documents.
MR. BARNEBEY: Right. As with -- by the way, as with most attorney's fee, you never know exactly what they're going to be. There could be more or less adjustments, basically.
MS. CARVALHO: I also say this, and I know it's not really related to the discussion here, but when it comes to records request, no records are getting
released. First of all, it comes from my office.

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No records gets released until counsel has reviewed it before getting released. Okay?
So if it's something that I am asking the board, I'm asking the general manager, I'm asking counsel because I wasn't part of those emails, those would be collected, assembled, if there's a deposit required, we will confirm that before releasing any records.
So keep that in mind, because if that is the case today, that is something I'll have a conversation with the general manager to make sure that that is not something that is going to get released because it's part of litigation.
MS. DICKSON: By the way, it would be interesting to add up all of the public records requests that have been made. I would like to actually see a total of that. Because remember, every one of those requests gets a legal fee attached to it as it is looked at, reviewed, et cetera.
MR. BARNEBEY: Right. Unless it's something simple. We don't see everything. We're off topic. I want to get us back on topic. Anything else for right now? So we will not make any proposal.
MS. DICKSON: Who gets back?

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MR. HEITZNER: Do we need to vote on this tactic?
MR. MOORE: No vote. Here is what I'm looking to get consensus on. Sounds like the four bullet points are off the table. We are unable to come to a consensus on the framework Mr. Matt presented.
And so what I will do is let Mr. Matt know that we have had several meetings. We have tried to work within this framework, we're unable do so. If he has some other proposal he can make, we certainly are willing to listen.
MR. MURPHY: Right.
MR. MOORE: It really is these first things, how to make it work given the authority that you-all have without giving up your authority. Or just making it be just the -- a committee that just gets to ramble on, but do nothing. So --
MR. MURPHY: We haven't even gotten to number three because one and two kind of held us up because three is not much of a starter either.
MS. DICKSON: Oh God.
MR. MURPHY: Just want to make it clear that it isn't just one and two. We never got to --
MR. PIERSONS: On what Steve I think was
asking, do we need -- have we made a commitment that

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we are going to hire an outside lawyer to do this?
MS. DICKSON: Not yet.
MR. MOORE: We're going do that outside of the shade. But the consensus on the settlement, I got that. There doesn't have to be any vote or anything, and I'm going to communicate with Mr. Matt where I feel settlement is.
MS. DICKSON: If Mr. Matt reaches out to anyone of us and sees a confidential discussion, what --what does anybody say? Well, I heard the attorney got back to me and blah, blah, blah.
MR. PIERSONS: We can't discuss the shade meeting period.
MS. DICKSON: We can't discuss anything about --
MR. PIERSONS: The shade.
MS. DICKSON: No, anything about the litigation.
MR. MURPHY: Period.
MR. PIERSONS: That's right.
MR. BARNEBEY: As a general rule, that's right. That is my recommendation. I can't stop you, but --
MR. PIERSONS: I think you should reach out to him sooner than later.
MR. MOORE: I will.

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1 | (Shade meeting concludes, public meeting |
2 | reopens.) | | | |
3 | MS. DICKSON: | Okay. | So we have concluded. |
4 | MR. BARNEBEY: | We're now in open session. |
5 | MS. DICKSON: | I believe we're now in open |
6 | session. | We have concluded our shade meeting. | And
7 | we still have our quorum, who were here in the |
8 | beginning, and so now we have some business to |
9 | conduct and that is the motion to be made. |
10 | MR. BARNEBEY: | We would like the authority to
11 | hire outside counsel to assist in the appeal. | As we
12 | determine appropriate and we would like that |
13 | authority. | | | |
14 | MS. DICKSON: | So may I have that motion made?
15 | MR. HEITZNER: | I make that motion. |
16 | MS. DICKSON: | And second? |

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MR. MURPHY: MS. DICKSON: MR. PIERSONS: MS. DICKSON: MR. PIERSONS: MS. DICKSON: MR. HEITZNER: MR. HUEBNER:
MS. DICKSON:

Second. And fur
No. All in
Aye. Aye.
Aye. I'm a no
Okay.

ther discussion?

favor?

.
And one opposed. So

four

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to one.
MR. BARNEBEY: With that, we have no other matter before the board this time.
MS. DICKSON: Anything else we -- nothing else we need to --
MR. MURPHY: Just -- how will -- how and if will this be communicated?
MS. DICKSON: To the other party or to the world?
MR. MURPHY: To the community. To the community. The community that's constantly asking have we heard anything, when are we going to be able to move forward? Should we consider communicating this to the community to show that we're taking some actions.
MS. DICKSON: Wait a minute. So we're in an open meeting right now so now it's --
MR. PIERSONS: They're being told right now. MR. MURPHY: By who --
MR. PIERSONS: It's an open meet, they have access.
MS. DICKSON: This will be --
MR. MURPHY: The meeting minutes will have to be signed off on, you sign off on them, right?
MR. PIERSONS: Yeah.

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MS. CARVALHO: And they will be part of a record at a subsequent board meeting.
MR. BARNEBEY: Let me say for the record, yes, we're still waiting on the Supreme Court on a matter that's supposed to be expedited by the Supreme Court as -- well, we still are waiting for the Supreme Court.
MS. DICKSON: So far --
MR. BARNEBEY: They have not ruled as of yet, and I have no problem saying that. And we have --I'll just leave it at that for right now because that's all.
MS. DICKSON: That is on the record. Your comment, David was not on the record -- not on the record.
MR. MURPHY: Yes, not on the record.
MR. BARNEBEY: I don't know what that means in this case. I think -- I think we are trying to do everything that the rules allow us to do to move this case forward, just there's not a lot of rules in this particular scenario to address this issue.
MR. MURPHY: So I guess establish, so the action that will appear in the minutes, will appear in the minutes? And will not be part of any other
communications?

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MR. BARNEBEY: The extent of the communication, I'm not -- well, that's -- that's up to you. I don't know --
MS. DICKSON: Yes, so it will be in the minutes that we have given you authority to contemplate an expenditure to bring in an outside attorney to assist with this case, basically, and that will appear in the minutes.
MR. MOORE: It will be in the public record of the court system, I would estimate, in five to seven days.
MR. MURPHY: I understand.
MS. DICKSON: But wait -- wait a minute. Five to seven, I thought until the litigation is over --
MR. BARNEBEY: We're talking about the hiring the attorney.
MS. DICKSON: Oh, oh, oh. Got it.
MR. MOORE: So if someone is not reviewing the meeting minutes here, Mr. Matt will clearly know within five to seven days.
MS. DICKSON: That we hired additional.
MR. MOORE: Because they will have filed the appearance with the Supreme Court, it will be docketed, and that would be when I anticipate people getting phone calls.

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51
1 | | MS. | DICKSON: Got it.
2 | | MR. | BARNEBEY: Okay.
3 | | MR. | MOORE: And I will email you when that goes
4 | out. | |
5 | | MS. | DICKSON: Sorry. What did you say?
6 | | MR. | PIERSONS: Saying that as an open public
meeting anyhow, the minutes we put it in writing. I
don't know what the problem is. So what?
MR. BARNEBEY: You are correct. He likely will
know as soon as the minutes go out.
MS. DICKSON: Motion to adjourn?
MR. PIERSONS: I say we adjourn.
MS. DICKSON: Second?
MR. MURPHY: Second.
MS. DICKSON: All in favor?
THE BOARD: Aye.
(Whereupon, the board meeting was adjourned at
18	3:08 p.m.)
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| UNIVERSITY PARK RECREATION DISTRICT - SPECIAL MEETING |
| | 52
1 | CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER |
2 | STATE OF FLORIDA |

3
4

COUNTY OF SARASOTA

5 | I, Olivia Cristantiello, Certified Shorthand |
6 | Reporter, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and |
7 | did stenographically report the Public Meeting/Shade |
8 | Meeting; and that the foregoing transcript is a true |
9 | record of my stenographic notes. |
10 | |
11 | I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, |
12 | employee, or attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, |
13 | nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' |
14 | attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I |
15 | financially interested in the action. |
16 | |
17 | DATED this 15th day of October, 2025 at Sarasota |
18 | County, Florida. |
19 | |
20 | |
21 | |
22 | |
23 | Olivia Cristantiello, CSR |
24 | |
25 | |

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